Our guest, Jenifer Sapel, is a financial expert and the founder of Utor Wealth. With years of experience in the financial industry, Jen is dedicated to helping women overcome their financial stress and achieve financial success with confidence. In this episode, she will share her insights on how to overcome the fear of financial management, and will offer valuable tips and strategies to help you create a healthy financial mindset.

it’s success okay I’ll answer all 16 of those questions right now I started uh in the

0:54

music business at Sony while I was still [Music]

1:12

[Music] [Applause]

1:20

hello and welcome to the show my name is Renee Hastings and I’m your host of

1:28

Renee speaks y’all today’s guest is truly amazing

1:35

Our Guest is a recovering overachiever who overcompensated financially after

1:42

living with the mother who struggled financially after a divorce she describes her

childhood home as one

1:49

that pretended tough subjects didn’t exist her drive to succeed

1:55

curiosity and astonishing ability to problem solve helped Propel her success

2:03

in financial services winning Awards and often being the only woman leader in the

2:10

room she started utor wealth after tiring of long-winded meetings and over emphasis

2:18

on products and sales quotas utor is Latin for to use to employ to

2:26

enjoy Our Guest believes that every dollar we touch and how we send it out into the

2:34

world is shaping both the world we live in and the one we aspire to

2:41

every woman deserves to do it intentionally and with confidence

2:48

that is exactly how she helps her clients y’all join with me in welcoming

2:55

Jensen [Applause]

3:00

[Music] sorry

3:06

I’m happy I’m wonderful how are you I am fantastic

3:12

it is so amazing to meet you like I know we’re not like live face to face but

3:18

this is about as face-to-face as we can get and I can like Beyond excited can you tell me

3:25

it’s the best way to start well I love this

3:31

this finances some people call it a taboo topic I call it one of those

3:38

things that you need to know if you’re gonna ever achieve anything in your life like

honestly agreed money is impactful

3:46

some people say oh rich people are terrible well

3:52

I I would like to be able to prove them wrong

3:58

yeah I’ve met plenty of lovely human beings who are wealthy so yeah right right but if

you grow up

4:06

in a family in a state of lack then and you told all these things I

4:13

wonder maybe sometimes our parents told us having money or being wealthy was bad

4:18

to make themselves feel better maybe sometimes I don’t know I don’t

4:24

know there’s a lot of just general shame around money so we have kind of culturally

4:29

tied morality to money um and so there is a lot of like if

4:34

you’re wealthy you worked a lot harder or you’re a good you’re a better person or you’re a

worse person and same if

4:40

you’re not if you don’t have money so there’s we culturally have a lot of just baggage

around the topic of money

4:46

facts I mean it was like 100 so so Jen tell us a little bit about you

4:53

and your journey and what made motivated you to pursue a career in financial services

yeah

5:00

um Financial Services found me more than I was driven to it um as you as your intro

says my parents

5:08

got divorced when I was 10 and life before divorce and life after divorce was different in

terms of financial Comfort uh and watching my Mom struggle

5:16

after divorce I was like not nope not going to do that just not okay we’ll ever depend on

another person

5:24

financially um plus I’m a firstborn daughter and I

5:29

was generally an overachiever so anything I did I had to be the best at it I had to do

really well uh so my

5:36

first my first full-time job I was living on one paycheck was it getting

5:43

paid twice a month and I was living on one paycheck and I was just sticking the other

check in the savings account again

5:49

coming from a place of fear was I was so so you knew to do that

5:55

kind of like as your own safety blanket that from from the experience you had growing

up and watching your Mom

6:01

struggle at 10 and saying telling yourself this will never be my story yeah and the

6:08

way you decided that this was never going to be your story is that you made up in your

mind you’re gonna live on one

6:13

paycheck and save the other yeah I had help right we all we all have the help we all get

help and need help along the

6:19

way um I did I came from that place of fear and I was like I want to do something better

and I was generally like super

6:27

responsible the 50 like living on one paycheck and putting the other paycheck in a

savings

6:33

account was a tip actually from a boyfriend like I don’t know if it’s 18

6:39

or 19 and he worked at a bank and he was like yeah the wealthiest people I see at

6:44

the bank they don’t make a lot of money they just save a lot so he was like so I try

6:50

really hard to live on one paycheck and save the other paycheck and I’m like I looked at

my budget and I was like

6:56

shoot I can do that wow that is so smart and how lucky are you to have that

7:01

person in your life to tell you that at 18 because I heard those exact same words like live

on one paycheck and and

7:08

save the other after I married my husband yeah you know so I’m good and

7:15

grown kids go on and everything before I heard that wisdom right you know right

7:20

and that’s a great like tip for any parents listening the time to start talking to kids about

7:27

money is when they’re three or four or five years old and not and not from you know not

a not

7:33

a fear-based thing not a just like a matter of fact just like you talk about a toothbrush

brush just like you talk

7:39

about you know putting your shoes on or things like that same thing you get a dollar

when you get a dollar what you do

7:46

with it we have three jars some of it goes in the spend jar some of it goes in the save jar

and some of it goes in the

7:52

share jar oh I like that okay so so we have a lot

7:58

of women who watch this show and a lot of them have small children and so I

8:05

starting at three or five yes that’s that’s seems early but um

8:15

but I’m willing to learn new things and share with our audience so because it’s

8:20

never too late I mean even if you didn’t start at three or five it’s never too late because I

have 18 year old

8:25

grandkids and they’re you know still trying to figure this thing out and I’m just like okay

so let me help you yeah

8:33

figure out what to do so that you can sustain yourself and live yes I love it

8:38

here and here’s I think I I totally agree with you it’s never too late to start

8:43

three and five is I mean at the time that they have language you know you’re naming

everything else in the house

8:50

right that’s a desk that’s a chair that’s the floor that’s the carpet right they’re gaining

language they should

8:56

start to gain language around money too that’s a dollar bill that’s a quarter right they

don’t have to know anything

9:01

more than that just to be able to identify it and start to build language around it um

9:06

yeah exactly ever super dirty

9:12

my three-year-old yeah only food in your mouth then only food

9:19

that’s so gross oh man exactly

9:27

um and then the thing and then the easiest thing with kids is this is what we do with

money right it’s just like

9:33

okay now we’ve named it then the next thing is this is what we do with it and it’s if you

can start Young And even if

9:40

you start at 18 that’s okay there’s only a few things you can do with money like it’s not

you know it’s like there’s only

9:46

a few things you could do with a car so with kids again with my kids they have a they

have the jars and it’s like

9:52

every dollar that comes in when they get birthday cards from their Aunt Judy and they

have a five dollar bill in it we

9:59

take turns putting it in one of the three jars if it’s like five one dollar bills then we put one

dollar in each jar

10:06

and then they get to decide you know where do you want to put the other two two things

but they start to gather that

10:12

like oh this is what we do with money and you know there’s two main things we can do

with it we can save it we can

10:19

spend it right that applies to 18 year olds too

10:24

so we can save it spend it and

10:35

for my kids and three or 18 year olds you’ll layer in on top of that invest

10:42

invest can invest it yeah okay is that part of the sharing or is that in

10:47

addition to the sharing that’s so you start with the you could start with two jars then it’s

three jars ultimately

10:54

there’s only five things you can do with money okay you earn it okay

11:00

you save it save it you invest it give it away

11:07

or spend it got it okay that makes sense that’s that seems I mean it’s that’s pretty big

and

11:14

sick I can think I can I can do that I thought well that that makes perfect sense

11:20

yeah and I think and I think that you could start with two and work your way up to five

and I think if you’re an

11:25

adult listening today and you’re like I’m not if you feel like I’m not good with money

those five things like their skill sets

11:33

and all five of those things just pick one and start to get better at one and then start to

get better at a different one and start to get better at a

11:39

different one right exactly because I mean Rome wasn’t built in a day right

11:45

and a lot of this has to do with mindset and the relationship you have with money and

what you believe about money or what

11:52

money is supposed to be for or what it can or can’t do and so I think that’s a

11:59

whole nother mental roadblock that some people may have to overcome it you know

12:05

at certain points because of the stories they told themselves when they were younger or

what they

12:12

experienced growing up or that kind of thing yeah and I love I love the way you said that

the stories stories you tell

12:19

them you tell yourself I think Society has a lot of stories that they like to tell us about

money

12:25

and then there’s stories that come from within or from our families or from what where

however we feel about money

12:31

um and the thing that’s been most helpful for me I mean I’ve I’ve now having been a

financial advisor for

12:39

20 years I feel like I’m still I’m still in constant pursuit of the money story

12:44

and revising my money story and learning more about the money story and and the way

I show up in the world and the way I

12:50

utilize my money in the world but the things that really have been the most impactful for

me is that

12:57

we what we’ve done culturally is we’ve made money kind of the object and like

13:04

the end goal so because of that we were very confused

13:10

and we’re like oh I want to have a lot of money um I want to be financially secure all of

those things

13:16

right it isn’t really money the end game that we really want right like if you if you ask if I

have a lot of money what

13:23

does that mean for me coming from a fear it meant not having to worry about paying

bills not

13:29

having to worry about buying groceries um but if you ask me today like what is having

enough money

13:36

mean like oh it’s this lifestyle that I can describe you know very succinctly my

13:43

family and I live here we have these options we can go to these schools so it isn’t the

money it’s what the money can

13:49

provide it’s the value that we use that money for so I like to the more I

13:57

the more I allow for money just being it’s that intermediary it’s that thing

14:03

in the middle between what I have now and what I what

14:08

I really desire the lifestyle I really desire or the options that I desire money’s just that

middle thing

14:16

yeah it’s like the means to the end yeah and and as long as it’s the means to the

14:22

end then I think there’s a uh there’s a lot of value in what you just said that it

14:28

doesn’t have to be the be all end-all it’s just the thing that gets you to

14:34

where you want to be and where you want to go it’s a resource yeah like air is a

14:41

resource water is a resource right it’s a resource that helps you measure what you value

14:48

so it’s the thing that you value at the other end it’s the thing that you value

14:53

that really you’re ultimately going for and I think that’s where you know so

14:58

much of our financial confusion comes from because you go for financial advice and

you’re just talking about that

15:04

advice that of that thing in the middle between where you are and what you’re

15:10

trying to get like the money is just the resource so we can talk about all the resource

things but the clearer you are

15:17

on what value you want out of that resource then the easier it is

15:24

to answer all of those questions about the resource right right

15:29

yeah absolutely absolutely it’s it’s a resource that helps you measure what you

15:34

value yes I love how you put that and that’s why it’s hearing quotes

15:39

because that is so good all right we’re cracking

15:45

yeah I know like it’s really party in the sky right it’s like it’s another way to think about

money but that

15:51

that’s my like my latest iteration right after 20 years of this journey and has

15:57

been the most helpful yeah because it makes the most sense I mean absolutely

because if you value

16:03

something like I gave an experience um I can’t remember who I was talking to but I was

sharing uh an experience in my

16:10

own life where my son was 13 years old and he was in his Advanced art class and

16:17

the teacher presented him with an opportunity to go to Italy with the advanced art class

to learn all about

16:24

the works of Michelangelo and da Vinci and all of the guys and Italian culture

16:31

and all of that he’s 13 years old and he comes home and

16:37

I see the paper on the table like he had no intention of giving it to me and I

16:43

said what’s this he said um Miss I can’t even remember

16:48

what her name is we’ll call her Miss Brown Miss Brown gave that to us she’s uh taking

the advanced art class um to

16:54

Italy and I was like wow that’s exciting do you want to go and he was like

17:00

mom it’s Italy and the way he said that was like

17:06

you we could you’re a single mom how on Earth could we ever get to Italy

17:12

you know like there’s absolutely no way on Earth that this could ever happen yeah and

so I said do you want to go or

17:20

not good for you he was like well yeah but

17:25

you know and I was like well fine and I signed the paper I said here give it back to your

teacher and on it was you

17:31

know a date for a deposit I think the deposit was like 100 bucks or whatever to save

your seat and then they gave you

17:36

some time to save up and put in the rest of the the second payment third payment

17:42

maybe it was four payments I don’t know what it was anyways I marked my calendar

and I started numbering the days

17:49

backwards to the trip and a calendar that we could see and we would cross off each

day and that having that Vision in

17:59

my head of what needed to be done help me dictate where my money went yeah

18:05

because the best believe we didn’t go out to eat nearly as much we didn’t you know buy

go shopping and buy clothes and

18:12

shoes and no we cut all that out because our money was now having uh a plan and a

18:19

purpose to get this to Italy so that you decide excited in that time frame you valued that

trip to Italy more than the

18:27

trips going out to eat you know leading up to those dates yeah absolutely and it

18:32

was a sacrifice of course but it was worth it it was totally worth it because

18:38

within that time we started talking about investing he’s 13. and how we wanted our

money to work for us while we

18:45

didn’t have you know why we went working and and so um there was a platform out

called buy

18:51

and hold.com I’m not sure if you’re familiar with them

18:58

is like 36 now but anyways so buyandhole.com was a platform I can’t

19:05

remember who bought it out but like you know Ameritrade or something anyways um it

was one of those things you could

19:10

actually like buy a stock and and own it hold it and whatever and let it do its

19:16

thing um you know earning interest and all of that and the stock market or bonds are

19:22

whatever it was and so he had become interested in that and so he made some picks

for us and we invested a few

19:28

dollars in some things one of his picks turned out to be a really great one and

19:34

we ended up being able to save money through that investment to help us fund

19:39

our spending money for the trip you know so I mean it was a really fantastic learning

experience for for

19:47

both of us to see money working for us and we didn’t have to actually be out

19:53

there you know it was in addition to our bake sale money fundraising getting our people

on doing

20:00

what we had to do to make the ends meet so that we could have these amazing 10

20:05

days in Italy with his Advanced art class I love it what a fabulous story

20:14

yeah like you did all of the things in there you did a bake sale so you earned money in

there you saved the money up

20:20

you did some budgeting in there and you invested the only thing you didn’t do in that

story that like uh is related to

20:28

money is gifting right unless I consider him getting spending money the gifting

20:33

but right right exactly and then we gave it away to the people who were organizing the

trip yeah

20:41

I love it uh the acis it was a great trip and they don’t pay me to say that

20:47

but I’m just saying well any listener has any kid in school

20:53

and acis Ely uh it was a good experience for your kid you let them go yeah beautiful for

21:00

sure so Jen what would you say though to people who are you know listeners who

21:06

may be struggling financially and and they have some Financial stress how can they

21:11

save or deal with the uncertainty in their lives um you know if they’re already

21:17

financially not making ends meet how do they get out of that and and be able to see

above

21:25

water yeah to you know to not be so stressed yeah so there’s like two

21:33

different I have two different answers for that um if you feel like you’re underwater

21:39

and stressed and can’t make ends meet um the reality might be that that’s true

21:45

the reality might be that for you to pay for rent or your mortgage and food

21:51

and all of the basic uh you know monthly needs that we have and annual needs you

21:57

might not be earning enough for those um and if you’re in that situation where you’re

earning less than what you need

22:04

on a monthly basis um then the only thing to do is to earn more I mean unless you can

like really

22:10

reduce your expenses but there’s a lot of financial advice out there that really wants you

to like budget your way

22:15

out of being financially stressed month to month

22:20

um and you can’t do that you can’t budget your way out of not making enough money so

if like basic

22:27

needs rent and food and that kind of thing if you’re not making it month to month you’ve

gotta you have to earn more

22:33

money um and I believe that every human deserves if you’re working full-time you

22:39

deserve to be able to live comfortably and pay all of your bills if you’re working full-time

so if you’re working a

22:44

job that isn’t paying you enough um you’ve got to find a different job or you’ve got to find

a way to get a raise

22:50

or um you know move where cost of living is is and I know that like moving is

22:56

impossible for a lot of people but you have to find a way where you’re earning enough

where you can pay bills on a

23:02

regular basis I imagine that could be part of your audience I imagine that the majority of

your

23:08

audience is in that camp I do just want to be really clear like you can’t budget your way

out of

23:13

under earning um but for a lot of people

23:20

uh you feel underwater uh but you are earning enough you’re just not being

23:26

intentional about where that money is going on a month-to-month basis or a

23:31

day-to-day basis um and for those people I think

23:36

the first step to Financial Security and financial confidence is just paying

23:42

attention and I know in the times in my life and and growing up in my house where

money

23:47

was super stressful what what you tend to do in your if you’re in a fear mode if you’re if

your

23:55

body is physically afraid uh is you do you know fear-based behaviors like run

24:01

away right put your head in the in the sand

24:06

yeah um yeah so money can relate to that yeah I

24:13

don’t know any I like I can’t I think and if you can think of one let me know but I I rack my

brain on this question

24:19

all the time like I can’t think of a fear-based decision that’s a good financial decision we

just yeah and we

24:27

don’t I mean biologically when we’re in our our

24:32

brains in that place of fear our executive function shuts off an executive function is

where good money

24:39

decisions come from so if you’re feeling really stressed and fearful you’ve got to get out

of that first before you

24:46

start addressing your money um there’s a good book called burnout by the nagoski

twins I really recommend

24:52

that for like how do you get out of that kind of mode of living okay um but then you got

to start paying

24:59

attention and the first thing is you’ve got to spend less than you make

25:05

on a month-to-month basis that’s cash flow

25:11

there’s a lot of ways to do that go ahead no that’s not saying that makes sense you have

to spend less than what you

25:18

make I mean because if you’re trying to spend more then you that usually means you’re

dipping into credit cards which

25:24

it doesn’t belong to you it’s not your money and and so you’re living above

25:29

your means yeah yeah and I and if you can make financial decisions today that

25:35

like honor your past self that honor your today self and then that

25:40

honor your future self if you’re every month putting things on credit cards what you’re

doing is you’re stealing

25:46

from your future and you’re constantly today constantly having to pay for your past self

so like

25:54

with every paycheck you’re like oh I’m still paying for my past self I’m still paying for my

past self and it’s hard to

26:00

it’s hard to catch up if a lot of your money’s going to that to that those past financial

decisions

26:07

right um and then like getting your hands around cash flow what I’ve seen work best for

for everybody is just

26:15

paying closer attention for most people just paying attention to it is enough right for

most people like I just don’t

26:22

know where my money’s going I don’t like the subject it feels icky so I just don’t if there’s

money in the bank I

26:28

spend it and you know two weeks from now I didn’t realize that I had this bill coming up

and so now I’m putting on a

26:33

credit card there’s not paying attention you just add paying attention to it that stops IT

that’s not true for everybody

26:39

but that’s true for a lot of people right I mean if you even count like those expensive

coffees that we can tend

26:48

to get and how quickly those can add up or if people have other you know Habits Like

You Know smoking cigarettes or you

26:55

know whatever these things if we cut those things out then that adds a whole

27:01

lot or even getting our nails done when I used to go get my nails done it was like 75

bucks

27:08

no time yeah that adds up that really adds up you know it was more than just

27:15

nails but I’m just saying you know when you go to this a lot yeah those those

27:21

things that are luxuries or or pampering kind of things you know as nice as they are you

know if you’re not making ends

27:28

meet you know those are not things I don’t think spending your money on Wow and with

those I don’t I haven’t seen

27:35

somebody and I’m sure there’s plenty of people out there that did stop the coffee thing

um with those things though again once

27:42

you start paying attention you’ll notice like oh I can do a coffee every day but like if I

drop this these two

27:49

subscriptions that I don’t use at all um that that I haven’t been paying

27:55

attention to right that gets me to where I need to be or even like with dining out uh

ordering it ordering a cocktail

28:01

with your meal like that gets expensive so if you have your cocktail at home and

28:07

then and then go out and have the meal without the cocktail depending on where you’re

living right right make sure it’s

28:13

on the way they’re taking you yeah and one of the best one of the best

28:20

tips I heard and this helped for me because I I used to get my nails done once a month

um and the pandemic just stopped that

28:27

habit for me and now that it’s stopped I’m just like oh I don’t really enjoy it as much as I

used to but I read

28:33

something once that was like what is that giving you so for me the getting my nails

done was less about having nice

28:40

nails and it was more about just having an hour to myself where I could where I

28:45

like there’s no demands on me I could just sit in peace and quiet I could listen to music

or whatever the case was

28:50

so once I knew that’s what I was really valuing out of getting my nails done like then I

28:57

can do I can have an hour that does the same thing but doesn’t cost as much exactly oh

that’s so good

29:04

so good and so you have to figure out how you can still do self-care because to me

that’s

29:10

self-care yeah you know and not have it cost you you know there’s more than one

29:15

way to skin a cat well you can you can and if you look at if you look at every expense as

how much do I value this what

29:23

was the value I got out of this and how much how much value did I get out of it so like

every dollar you’re giving like

29:30

here’s the dollar what am I getting in exchange and for coffee for a lot of people that’s

like a you know a morning

29:36

ritual it’s a time of you know peace and whatever like I don’t want to give that

29:41

up but for this dollar over here I’m spending like I’m not getting a lot of value out of that

dollar so I’m either

29:48

Gonna Save or invest that for my future self or I’m gonna spend it differently right

exactly that’s so smart so smart

29:54

and even like I love how you said that even cutting some subscriptions you know like is

it really necessary for you to not

30:02

have commercials on Spotify for ten dollars or whatever it costs or whatever

30:07

those music things are or do I need Netflix Disney Spotify Amazon Prime

30:14

right and Apple tv like I really only watch two of those things I don’t watch

30:19

all of them probably don’t need all of them yeah exactly so in the last few minutes that

30:26

we have together Jen this has been so great that I don’t even think I’ve gotten to half my

questions that I

30:32

wanted to ask you sorry conversation so Vlog isn’t helpful yeah yeah it truly is

30:39

and it’s so relatable it truly is so um I have a surprise for our listeners

30:47

so before we go I want to share something that’s super exciting uh with

30:52

you and with our listeners that we’ve got even more amazing content with Jen

30:59

sapel over on 100 TV network where she will share exclusive golden nuggets with

31:08

us uh on 100 TV network it shows every

31:13

Tuesday in starting in June at 12 o’clock noon and it’s chock full of

31:19

extra interview questions behind the scenes stories and all kinds of

31:24

inspiration and empowerment to keep you going throughout the week so be sure to

31:31

mark your calendar starting in June and addition to Renee speaks we now have Renee

speaks golden nuggets only on 100

31:38

TV network so Jen as we get ready to grab our

31:44

drinks and get ready to head to the green room and enjoy a cocktail uh how

31:50

would you like to wrap us up for this show how can we get in touch with you learn more

all of the great things

31:56

sure um thank you first for having me and for listening I hope that this was helpful

32:03

um you can find me at utorwealth.com that’s u-t-o-r-utorwealth.com

32:09

um I do complimentary consultations 20 minutes for anybody for anything so we may

not be a good fit and that is fine

32:16

I’m happy to point you in the right direction whether or not you end up working with us

we do offer two Services

32:24

though one is comprehensive financial planning the other is investment management

awesome awesome that’s great well thank

32:31

you so much and that’s a wrap for Renee speaks and I’ll see you in the Green

32:37

Room [Applause]

32:42

there’s like a multi-million dollar difference

32:51

[Music] so go and be awesome

32:57

[Music]

33:08

thank you