So also I do the introduction separately, so when I come back on. So if you could look at the camera as if you’re talking to me. There you go. And then that’ll look like you’re talking to me. And then. Yeah. So in the end, will I record the interaction separately, and then we’ll edit that answer because I don’t like all of that blah,blah blah of like pretending that we just met or whatever you want me to show up?Although that’s, that really shows just how I guess what All that right? And then say your full name for me.

[00:00:31] Jennifer Sapel Jennifer sapel.

[00:00:32] Samantha Hartley Cipel. Good. And can I call you Jen?

[00:00:34] Jennifer Sapel Yup.

[00:00:35] Samantha Hartley Good. All right. So, Jennifer Cipel, tell us a little bit about

your work, what you do, and who you do that for.

[00:00:46] Jennifer Sapel Sure. I am a financial advisor. I have two services. One is

comprehensive financial planning and the other is investment management. And I do it

for high earning women who want to be confident in all their financial decisions.

[00:01:00] Samantha Hartley Fabulous. And what is high earning.

[00:01:02] Jennifer Sapel Usually a household income of $250,000 a year or more?

[00:01:07] Samantha Hartley Super. And when you say financial services, what do you


[00:01:12] Financial services or financial planning?

[00:01:15] Mm hmm. Yes.

[00:01:17] Yeah. What that looks like is a like 12 month. It’s almost like a coaching or

consulting agreement. So for 12 months, we go through three phases. The first phase is

what’s the analysis look like? So let’s dump out all of the financial data and say, okay,

what do we have? Let’s talk through what we want the future to look like. And then we’ll

run scenarios. We’ll run future projections. That first initial phase will usually take 60

days. We come up with an action plan from there, and it’s a checklist that’s prioritized

and says, All right, here’s step one, two, three, four to however many. And the balance

of the year is me supporting my clients in executing that that checklist.

[00:01:57] And what are some of the items on a checklist like that?

[00:02:00] Like get your will and health care directives and durable powers of attorney

updated. You know keep your your spend rate at about this much of your income and

make sure that you’re setting aside about this much of your income for your future self.

Here are the options before we get to the checklist we’ll talk through. This is how much

you need to save for your future self and all the different ways you could possibly save

or invest it. Before we get to the like checklist item. We’ll talk through like what are your

preferences? And then whichever preference you choose, that’s the one that shows up

on the priority list. So often things, things that get missed is like risk management. So

the biggest risks for an individual’s financial situation are things like divorce and death,

unemployment and lawsuits. So that’s it. Those are the big five. And there’s things you

can do with all five of those to really mitigate your financial risk.

[00:02:55] Super. That’s amazing. So one of the reasons that I wanted to talk to you is

because I find that women, most of my clients are women, and then a lot of them are

very reluctant to talk about the subject in a not very empowered way. They’ve always

delegated that to somebody else or expected someone else to do that. And then they

find themselves as grown ups like I did last year, go look very, very grown up. And I was

like, we don’t have wills. I mean, let’s kind of get serious. Like, let’s just kind of get our

financial act together. So we went through exactly the process that you’re talking about,

the wills, the getting realistic life insurance and things like that together. And I feel like

self-employed women very often, you know, just kind of by default, leave that to

someone else and really don’t take the responsibility to do that. So I’m glad that your

clients are doing that. And I really want everyone who’s hearing the show or seeing us

on YouTube to really take action and get serious about this. If it’s nothing else other

than a will, because like, things can happen. So I love that you’ve named these Big Five

because I think a lot of people have been touched by one of those five and knock on

wood, that they won’t be in the next year. So I’m getting that. You also do women come

to you like reluctantly or like after having like really procrastinated this or like, what’s the

state that they come to you with?

[00:04:17] Yeah. Yeah. I’m glad you asked that. I’m not. That’s where you started

because as you were talking, what came to mind is, you know, the financial services

industry. So anybody like me who talks about money every day isn’t it has been built by

men. And so the language about it, the perspective, the you know, like there’s not

women are generally more the caregivers in the family. So whether that’s children or

parents. So there’s a different perspective when it comes from the other gender. And

there’s there was a study in the UK of a woman who started a bank there for women to

solve all. A lot of the issues that we’ve touched on here and what they did is they looked

at all of media representation of money. And messages geared for women versus

messages geared for men were wildly different. So any time they you know, they are

condescending for women, right? They’re often like telling us the messages like, don’t

spend money, don’t spend money. It’s like 90% of the messages are that way. When

they hear women, when they’re geared for men, they’re like, oh, make that investment.

Even if we’re talking about a watch like mission than that watch. Yeah. So almost

everybody comes to me feeling like they should be further ahead. They should have

done something more. They should know more than they do. So if you’re listening to

this or watching this and you feel that way, you are totally normal. That’s how everybody

comes to us. My friends, everybody in this in this field would say the same. It’s kind of

like afraid to talk to your OB about what’s happening with your with your body parts.

Mm. We’re used to it. We’ve seen it all. And if you feel judged, like, work with a different


[00:05:57] Mm hmm. Exactly. And I really notice the language about millennials is also

even more condescending than it is towards women. It’s just really not respectful of,

like, they’re like avocado toast and just the condescension. And I think it’s a you know,

to me, what that says is that there’s not enough women in the profession or there’s

enough millennials in the profession. You know, if you don’t like the way someone’s

talking to you, like we need to find people who do talk to us the way we want to be

talked to. So I think that’s a big opportunity. The other thing is this is the first show on

my season about money. I want to talk about money to women. I don’t know what how I

ended up in this role because I didn’t grow up with a lot of money, but I really feel like

nobody else is. You know, most people aren’t talking about it and I want to stop fluency.

And you referred to kind of the shame that a lot of us have about like not being where

we should be. And I also find there’s just like it makes all of us feel like bad children, you

know, like inadequate children, like we go into this role. So what do you think it is about

talking about money that makes us all feel like little children?

[00:07:09] Yeah. Again, amazing question. I think what it is, I think there’s a lot of there’s

a lot of factors and compounding factors. I think the biggest one is that being good with

money is having a set of skills and none of us are good at any skill until we use it and

we practice it. I have a three year old and a five year old and, you know, like like

parenthood does, it has humbled me in development in lots of ways, but in human

development. So things like like, you know, I’ve just recently had to teach kids how to

use a spoon. You know, we we were not born knowing how to use a spoon. We weren’t

born knowing how to drive a car. Like if you sail, if you ski. Any of these things are skills

that you can’t even get. You can even obtain and be good at them by reading about

them in a book or like watching YouTube videos. Right? You can do that to some

extent, but you’re not going to be great at it until you actually get behind the wheel of a

car and start driving. And the more you do it, the better you get at it. So I think that we

there’s this there’s this expectation. We put this expectation on ourselves that we should

be good at money magically and automatically. You know, it just should be something

that we are innately born with. Yeah, and that’s false. Like we’re not good at money until

we actually practice using it.

[00:08:30] Totally and that there are skills that you can learn and they’re knowable.

[00:08:35] Yes.

[00:08:35] I think what the the place that I meet a lot of my clients with this is that they

happen to be in business and we need to do a lot of math and business and a lot of

people are like, Well, I came into business to do X, Y or Z, and none of those things are

math, right? You can’t run a business unless you have some comfort with numbers and

you track your numbers. And so those skills I’m ending up saying like that’s a gap for

you and you need to know this. So for example, I would have clients that I would be like,

Well, how much did you earn last year? And I would be like, Well, I’m not going to know

until my accountant tells me. And I’m like, No, that’s the wrong answer. And I have

another client who is like, Well, I really do better when I don’t look at my numbers. And

I’m like, No, awesome. Okay, so there has to be enough familiarity with that and fluency

and ability to work with the numbers. Even the basics make you feel better. And to be

able to just be able to look at your numbers and to track certain things. So how much

just basic financial literacy do you find that you’re doing with your clients?

[00:09:40] Um, it’s like varying degrees. I think some people have really like whether it’s

from childhood or there’s been some experience in their life or there’s just a lot of, of

shame and fear around money. You know, those people, there’s more there’s more

effort on the. The literacy side, I’d say even more than literacy. It’s just kind of let’s

pinpoint and identify where that came from and what this story made up in your head is.

Where is it coming from and why is it there? And then let’s talk about what we want your

future self to look like. You know, I think with a lot of things in life, you know, we when

we get uncomfortable, we take a step back. And I often tell people in any financial

decision, like you have to lean into the discomfort. I’m sure you say the same types of

things, right? Painful. It shouldn’t be painful If you’re if it is painful, it’s time to go. Okay.

Let’s take a break. Let’s take a step back. Let’s do something else is redirect. But

growth and progress is through the discomfort. So you do have to lean into some of

those things before you are going to start to see change or progress.

[00:10:53] Totally. So how much of what you’re doing in the financial planning is actually

getting them into investments?

[00:11:04] It’s like probably 50/50 people that have done a great job of saving. So we’ll

have money sitting in a bank account and not just hurdle. Going from saving to investing

is where I help them. A lot of times people have set up some kind of automatic

investment strategy and they don’t really look at it. They don’t have like a full

comprehension of what both how it’s investing, what it’s doing for them, but also like

how how that money is going to be meaningful for them at some point, you know, in the

near future or in the far off future, You know, I’m kind of doing I can do either of those


[00:11:40] Mm hmm. So can you share like a before, during and after of someone that

you’ve worked with and kind of the whole arc that you took her through in the work with


[00:11:48] Sure. Yeah. Recently, like in the last six months, I’ve worked with with two

engagements that were really interesting and fun, where in both cases it was a

household that was earning a lot more than they needed for their household expenses

and that they were putting away for their future expenses. They had the surplus of

several hundred thousand dollars. So if they had come to me, if they hadn’t come to me

right, there would have been in that constant state of like, Well, do I have enough? I’m

not sure I have enough. And I’m like putting money away into these different accounts.

But again, there’s not a lot of context. Like, I don’t know what those different accounts

are going to mean for me down the road so I could help them like, okay, like this is what

this is what it takes to live the lifestyle that you’re living right now. This is how much you

have to invest at this rate so that you can maintain this lifestyle forever. And this is the

surplus. So we actually ran for them three different scenarios like what if you burned or

spent all of your surplus so you could like increase your lifestyle significantly today than

than the lifestyle that you’re living. So that’s an option. Another option is build a real

estate empire. So we actually like it now because it was something they had an interest

in. So we modeled out this is what it looks like to buy a property or two every year for

like the next ten years. And then this is what it looks like. If you invest in like a stock and

bond portfolio, you can do any of the three or you can do a percentage into all three like

variations of these three things. So what’s interesting about one of these cases in

particular is, one, they went from they had a childhood with scarcity and purity. They

went from just having no idea where they stood financially to understanding that they

had a surplus and like they can count it, right? This is how much I need. This is how

much we earn to knowing what’s possible with their money. And for her, it led to a

career change. She decided. Yeah, she decided to scale back on like the day job so

that she could spend more time doing real estate investing because that sounded like a

fun opportunity for her to reflect. Yeah. And I was like, You, great, let’s do it. We’ll do it

for a period of time. And you always have permission that five years from now you

decide you don’t want real estate investing, you do something.

[00:14:13] Super. I love it. So it turns out that facts and really knowing the situation gave

them opportunities and choices that they wouldn’t have had without knowing the reality

of the situation. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I would love that more often. The situation

was like, Hey, you have all this excess money instead of like, Hey, you actually are

overspending and really need to kind of tame it down.

[00:14:36] Yup,.

[00:14:38] I think it was I wasn’t prepared for how much we’re going to talk about death

and dying. It’s like constantly like, well, here’s the life insurance and here’s how long do

you think you’re going to live and how much money do you need? But I do think the the

investment piece is gives a lot of confidence. So I feel like there’s always like three ways

you can go with investing, DIY, having somebody else. Take care of it. And then like

another way, which I can’t remember what is, but what are what are all the ways that if

someone does want to do investing that they can they can do that.

[00:15:08] Yeah, I love that as the first decision. Right. Because going from saver to

investor. Like bridging that gap for some people feels really big. The first decision to

make is am I interested in capital markets and thinking about finance and reading about,

you know, stock prices or real estate or whatever the case is, Do I have interest in that?

Because if you do, you may be a DIY’er you might be somebody who this is something I

want to spend time and energy on every day or periodically or whatever cases, and just

decide to do it yourself. Hiring a professional that’s delegating, that’s finding somebody

like me that says, okay, this is way they do the service I need. I don’t want to spend my

time and energy there, but I do want to work with somebody I trust in delegating. And

the third option is like a robo advisor. So something like Ellevest or Betterment or

Wealthfront, all of those are options where you can go online, you’re going to fill out a

questionnaire. The questionnaire is going to gauge what is this money used for or what

do you plan to use it for, and what type of investor are you. And then because of that

kind of questionnaire, they’re going to flow through to investment recommendations for


[00:16:16] Cool. Love it. I’ve two two of the three of those. So I have a buddy who does

day trading and I feel like, isn’t day trading a lot like a casino the more closely resemble

a casino or is it like actually really like a safe and legitimate choice?

[00:16:35] The research shows over time almost nobody is good at day trading.

[00:16:41] That’s what I thought like it doesn’t research show that really buy and hold

forever is like always outperforms also I thought this was interesting always outperforms

any advisor who is making moves in your portfolio, like your pawnshop portfolio should

be still.

[00:16:58] Yeah.

[00:16:59] Unless it’s like acquiring more of the same as what’s what’s the truth around


[00:17:04] Great question. So what you’re talking about in in the investment world is

called active investing, versus passive investing. And yes, most of the research in the

data shows that passive investing over time will outperform active investing. So active

investing is, you know, like really looking for trades so that you can exploit gains, right,

or minimize losses. And part of the reason for that is that active trading costs more. Any

time you make a transaction, there are fees associated with that. So not only do they

have to perform better, they have to make up for the fees that are they’re incurring by

doing the active trading.

[00:17:42] Mm hmm.

[00:17:43] One of the caveats to that statistic is that you do have to rebalance. So

rebalancing means if you have a portfolio that is 80% stocks and 20% bonds, what can

happen over time is, let’s say stocks significantly outperformed bonds. And a few years

from now we end up looking at your portfolio and we haven’t been paying attention to it.

Now your portfolio is like 95% stock and only five bonds. So once a year it is a good

idea, generally speaking, to rebalance and make sure that you’re keeping true to that

initial investment strategy where 80% of your money is in stocks and 20% of your

money is in bonds.

[00:18:23] So is it the case that if you have a lot of active trading in an account more

than once a year, that probably somebody is doing too much?

[00:18:34] Not necessarily. There are other reasons to be making trades and.

[00:20:00] I accidentally muted your microphone.

[00:20:03] Can you unmute yourself? So. Yes. So I didn’t actually hear any of what you

just said. Oh, good. Because I have a review. Do you want to review it or do you just

want to keep it? Because it seemed very stupid. Oh, well, I don’t know. I think. Is it in I

think it was a good example. So it’s from you know, it’s terrific. It’s from your side. So

your side recorded it. It’s just my side. Oh, got it. Okay. I had a long record. Good.

Because so many car alarm went off, and I actually make a point about it, but no. So

this car alarm went off and I tried to mute myself, but I accidentally muted you. And I

was like, Oh, dear, we’re good. Okay.

So one of the things that has always been a huge conflict for me has been that I have a

well-performing portfolio and it’s got a few companies in there that I would rather not be

invested in. And I think there’s for a long time there’s the idea that you have to invest in

these the Philip morris’s and British Petroleum’s of the world in order to have a decent

portfolio. And I think that is not true. So you seem to have a unique point of view on


It’s amazing you ask the best question. So I’m going to have to like go back and watch

all of your YouTube videos so you do not have to. You do not have to. In the world of

investing, generally, the the option is for an ESG strategy. ESG is an acronym. It’s a

framework. It’s short for environmental, social and governance. You know, like all

things, it’s not perfect, but it is a different framework with which to look at your

investment portfolio and say, Am I investing in a way that is good for the environment?

Am I investing in a way that is good for social change and social justice, and am I

investing in a way that is good for governance, good governance principles? Are we

making good strategic, well, short term and long term decision making? The over the

last couple of years, so that that trend has grown significantly. The rate in which new

money and you know, to your point about millennials, millennials and women want to

know beyond a rate of return what investments, what impact their investments are

making on the world. So there is an option. Yeah, absolutely. If anybody tells you that

ESG investments don’t perform as well as traditional strategies, they’re the wrong

advisor for you. They’re just looking at the data, you know, which is true for a lot of

these kind of issues. Right. You know, people will will have a feeling and adamantly

opposed something. But you say, okay, well, what is the evidence? And let’s take a look

at the data. What is true is that they perform differently. It isn’t that they perform better

or worse. So, for example, in 2020 when when COVID, you know, when the pandemic

started and when everything shut down in March of 2020 and people stopped driving

and like the whole world changed. Right? The price of of energy fuel in particular, oil

plummeted. So ESG portfolios in 2020, especially in those first two quarters, were

significantly outperforming traditional investments. And that has inverse this year like

last year and this year. What’s happened since COVID is now there’s a war in Ukraine

and there’s constraints on on oil supply and energy supply. So energy has gone up

significantly. So traditional portfolios now with that sector are outperforming ESG

strategies. And so, again, anybody who just gives you a blanket like, you know, no, they

don’t perform better. They’re just not grounded in the data. And if that’s up to you, it

means you probably want to find somebody else.

So long term, if will they perform equally? Like if we look at as long as possible, as long

as we have data for the newer kinds of companies, you know, something that we would

really want to be invested in, whether that’s solar or green energy, I don’t think it helps

to compare it to oil because I don’t really care that it performs the way oil performs. I

want to just know, is it outperforming, let’s say the, you know, the S&P 500 or whatever.

All right. Well, like so many things come to mind, but I’ll try to keep it to two, maybe

three. Number one, I there’s no way to know. We don’t nobody can. Again, if and if

somebody tells you that they can predict the future again, run, because if they did, they

wouldn’t be offering services. Right. So we don’t know. I have a hunch. You know, my

theory is that over time, those kind of strategies will will continue to outperform. And

that’s just because. You know, governance issues as an example. Are we thinking for

the long term, are we concerned about, you know, more flooding happening and how

are we mitigating that risk and how are we making decisions? So at the very least, you

could think of these scenarios as like risk mitigation factors. And so, again, I do believe

that ESG portfolios over time will outperform. I also think they’ll become the norm.

They’ll be just part of normal investment decision making.

To your question about performance. I really like this. I read Michael Poland like a

bunch of his food books back ten years ago. And one of my biggest takeaways from

one of the books was that Americans use external factors to decide how much to eat.

So we love to count calories, we love to count macros, we love to finish our plate like

everything we do in terms of consuming food is like determined by something else. Most

other cultures have internal mechanisms that decide when we should eat, when we

should stop eating. And he uses the example that in Japan there is a phrase that is you

stop when you’re 70% full and that always like that like nugget just has always carried

with me. This is to your point about, you know, who cares what what the performances

and really who cares what is performing against. The most important thing for us to

know and and be aware of is is it performing in the way I need it to? Mm hmm. And not

some external factor telling me I have to beat something. I have to outperform

something. I have to do something else that’s external. Yeah. You have a specific goal,

you have a specific time frame, and you are going to have a specific target that you’re

going to want to hit for that. So do you care or how much do you care that your portfolio

outperforms or underperforms other portfolios as long as it’s accomplishing your goal?


So I can look at the way my portfolio is earning and say that looks like it’s on target to

earn me an additional million dollars over the next however many years and feel

satisfied with that. It’s such a non patriarchal view because I feel like the masculine view

is like more and more and more and more and more and more. More. I want to be

concrete outperform, I mean, all those kinds of things. And like, I love that idea because

when you alluded to it earlier, I wasn’t quite sure what you meant, but I feel like, oh, if

my if my goals are my goals, then perhaps I don’t need to care what that somebody

else’s like 400% of the S&P 500 and blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, that’s where even the software we use, you know, and I’m constantly like tripping

over these things that that I took for granted for a long time, like because the financial

services is built by men, my, my financial planning software defaults to like winning is

never building like the largest portfolio ever between now and death. Like zero of my

clients have come to me saying I want the most money possible when I die. What

they’re telling me is I want to live a good life. And this is what a good life means to me,

right? I want to be able to live here. I want to be able travel this much. I want to be able

to take this much time off. Right. I need I want to be able to do these hobbies. Whatever

the case is, there’s a dollar amount we can assign to those things. So as long as you

can do those things and not have me running out of money, that’s what most of my

clients would define a success.

Love that idea. Your strategy is has a specific name. Yeah. Alpha.

Alpha female. Yeah, you’re right. It’s. It’s got that. It’s a little tongue in cheek. Yes, I

have. Alpha in the investment world is the measure of outperformance. So if you’re

expecting your portfolio to do 7%, but your portfolio does 9%, that 2% difference is

alpha, like that’s the name of that, that metric. So the strategy is a little tongue in cheek.

What we did with that strategy is we said, what if we invested the same way we do in

any other stock portfolio and looked for companies who were top quartile in their

diversity metrics? Because there’s a large and growing body of data that shows

companies that are more diverse outperform companies that are less diverse, so more

diverse companies outperform. So our strategy is specifically looking for those

companies. And at the end of the day, I just think it’s like quality, like we’re choosing

higher quality companies again, the expectation that it would outperform less diverse

strategies, similar, but less diverse strategies, just super.

Love it. Love it? I think so. And it does. Yeah. I’ve never. The long time we’ve got. Shall

we? Together. Yeah. Oh, it’s. I think it’s just terrific. It’s just terrific. It is. It is qualitative

instead of just like you can smash more or more stuff.

And I think the idea that I could invest with my values, it’s I think it’s still a new idea for a

lot of people. What’s the what’s the first way that someone should get started with the

things that we’re looking at? Should it be the with the wills and the insurance and the

things like that? Or can they go straight to the investing? Look, what’s the first place that

someone should look? Good question.

Usually I’m starting with risk management. So before we before we start putting money

aside for our future selves, let’s manage the risks that are possible today. And I

mentioned the big five. Divorce, death, disability, unemployment and lawsuit. And that

too, to mitigate those risks usually other than unemployment. Unemployment is just, you

know, have a have a safety net, you know, in savings 6 to 12 months is my general

recommendation depending on how fluctuating your your income and expenses are and

how marketable you are, how easy it is for you to pivot. But the other ones are usually

either insurance policies or legal documents that are your actions a place to start? Mm

hmm. Mm hmm.

Do you what’s your specific advice for business owners relative to this? I ask because I

think of, like, disability insurance, because when you say the big five and what are risks

to me health comes to mind because there’s so much bankruptcy associated with health

care and so much risk associated with like, well, somebody just gets sick and then, you

know, all your money is gone and and, and who knows how long. And sometimes it

doesn’t really even matter what kind of an insurance policy you have. So for business

owners, what would be the unique things that you would recommend?

Number one, I do love that you brought up disability insurance and you think of all those

risks for a business owner. That’s number one, right? If you own the business and if you

can’t work in the business now, if you have if you have an enterprise and you have other

people on your behalf, like if you could step away and the business would still make

money, that might not be as relevant. But in that case, that usually means that

somebody on your staff is a key person, and that person. Right, is necessary in order

for your business to continue to grow and earn revenue. So that might mean that you

have key the key person insurance. Yeah. Yeah. You think it’s funny like they that’s not

a concept that people like have an easy time wrapping their head around. But if you

think about equipment, right if you think about manufacturing equipment, if your

equipment broke, right. Like you’re out of business, sometimes you’ve got human

capital, capital that is that essential to your to the function of your business as well. So

same you need to be able to replace that, you know, immediately. If you’re selfemployed,

you know, solo operator, you’re the one generating the revenue. Absolutely.

Disability income insurance insurance companies are it’s it is potentially going to get

harder to get that kind of insurance. So if you’re listening to this and it’s been on your list

for for a while, this is your cue to go get it today. Get it now. Yeah, get it now, because

COVID is changing mortality and morbidity numbers. So that is going to start to be

priced into insurance at some point. My my is my expectation. Yeah. And of those all of

those are disability is like the most likely after divorce divorces if death is going to

happen all of us eventually that risk is usually. For the people living right In our risk,

divorce is a 5050 shot. It’s actually one in four people will suffer a long term disability.


What’s the best thing to do for divorce in advance of it? Is this prenups or is this having

your own bank account? How do you advise women in that one? Yeah, three things. So

prenup, if you’ve got like some people have issues with prenups. But what I would say is

whether or not you have a legal document, you have a prenuptial agreement, it is made.

It is already determined by the state that you live in. So the state you live in has already

decided this is how the assets will be divided in the event of a divorce. So, like, you

know, go with the default or design it on your own. I would recommend designing it on

your own, your own bank account, and talk to your spouse about money. This goes

back to the beginning of our conversation. So I’ve seen, you know, and all women in

particular, because we outlive men, there is some point in our lives that we will. Eight

out of ten will be solely responsible for our financial household, our financial lives, all of

our financial decisions. I’ve seen instances where the male spouse died and we got a

surprise business excise tax bill from the state because she was not part of normal

business and everyday conversation. So you have to talk to your spouse, run credit

reports, share share credit reports once a year, have your own bank account with a

couple thousand dollars in it for like a, you know, quick escape. Just got a you know, got

to go find in the event of the absolute worst case scenario. Those are the big three.

Awesome. That’s super helpful. And then on the other one’s lawsuit, umbrella

insurance. Mm hmm. Good. Super easy. It is. Yeah. I think a lot of people already have

an umbrella policy on their home. It’s the. It’s the incase somebody comes in my house

and, you know, slips and falls. So I think a lot of people have that right or other

homeowners insurance. But in case they don’t, that’s something to look into. And then

what were the other two? Do we do them all? The other two risks death. Yes.

You did something you mentioned on life insurance, you know, and all of these things.

This goes for your investments also can be as simple or as complex as you want to. I

think one of the things that stops us from making progress is we think that we need to

make the perfect decision. There’s no such thing as a perfect decision. It’s all messy

and it’s all a matter of preference. So even on the life insurance, right, like your options

are no life insurance. So just play through. What does it look like if we don’t have life

insurance? And then there’s a maximum, like all insurance and insurance company is

only going to provide you an amount up to a certain amount and they measure it on

your economic value. So like somewhere between that zero and that maximum amount

of insurance, that’s the right amount of insurance. Like don’t don’t sweat too much about

the decision. In most cases with most of these decisions, you can change your mind

later. You can adjust. Exactly.

So, yeah, I’d say go get 100,000 just immediately, and then you can worry about the

exact numbers later. But you want to have something. Yeah. You know, we’ve thought

about, you know, who’s who’s income do you cover and what do you worry about that.

And it’s like, listen, it doesn’t matter if I have money or not. The person who’s remaining

probably isn’t going to want to work for a while, and that’s going to go back to your

disability thing. It’s like whether you can or can’t, if you you know, if you lose someone,

especially for those of us who are self-employed, if you lose someone, you’re not going

to want to work in your business and that there’s going to be a disruption. So preparing

for life disruption I think was was really big for us.

And then the wills because as you said, like the state will tell you what’s going to

happen with your stuff after you die. So maybe you want to know what that’s going to be

and maybe you want to prevent the hassle of that and just get serious about it.

Yeah, and there’s this. No, if you have minor children, you don’t want the state deciding

who’s going to take custody of your minor children. You know, the default in I live in

Washington State, so the default in my state would be that my mom would take custody

of my children. And that’s not what my husband and I want, you know, not because

she’s not a great person or whatever, because my kids are super young and she is not

super young. And yeah, it’s just not her. It’s not the right call. And I don’t we wouldn’t

want them to have to, like, try to figure out what did they want, what were their

intentions after the fact.

Exactly. Exactly. So it’s these are conversations you’re going to have at some point.

And so why not have them today when you’re thinking about them? You know, I always

talk about when we go into organizations and work with them, it’s almost the same

disruption for our clients as it is a tax time. So when tax time is happening, you’re like,

great. For the whole first quarter, I have this special project. We’re have to do all of the

stupid work. And even if you’ve got super organized with bookkeepers, you still have to

do some stuff and you’re like, Oh my God, I have a special project, which is taxes.

That’s kind of how it feels. We come in and work with our clients like it is a disruption.

There is going to be a disruption when you do this whole financial thing, which is why

you said you do it with your clients over the course of a year because we cannot do all

this stuff all at once. I mean, it took us months to get our wills done. It took us months to

figure out the life insurance. It took months on all of these things because they’re big

decisions. But dude, it’s done. And I’m so happy that we did that because I hope we

don’t have to think about it for at least a decade or so now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good. I’m glad to hear that. So it was. Do you feel like a big

accomplishment and like a relief? Like all the things. And, you know, we trust our

finance people and so we feel good about that as well, having, having good people. So

when you think about something that if someone out there is listening and they don’t

have a someone like you, what would you what would you invite them to to do?

Interview a few. So I have a guide if they want to. If you if you go to and you make sure I

get the right one. I think it’s due to our wealth guide, but it would help you kind of

interview financial advisors. It’s a guided tour. Welcome. I’ll give you you can link it in

the up with the link in the show notes. Yeah I love this idea. So it’s an an interview

format. Yeah. For a potential advisor. Yeah. Yeah. And it goes through this. It’s like a

five step process, right. Because before you, before you go out and look for, you know,

professional help, you like the guide is going to ask you first, like, what do you want help

with? Do you want what we’ve talked about today is really like a high level

comprehensive view, or you feel like you’ve got a good handle on that and you just want

somebody to manage your investments and that’s not something you want to deal with,

right? That’s what you want to outsource. So you might be looking the clearer you are

about what you want help with, the easier it is going to be to find the right advisor. I’ve

got a list of questions in there. I’ve got, you know how you can see what their like

disclosure history is. We’re all licensed and registered so you can see if we have

felonies or misdemeanors or if we’ve had complaints and lawsuits. So it shows you

where to find that. And it’s always great. You know, ask your friends, who are you

working with and what do you love about them? And if you’re friends, I there’s so many

people so many people come to me, They’re like, I love meeting with you. I love having

meetings with you. And I’ve heard, you know, several times, like, I didn’t love having

meetings with my other advisor for whatever reason. Like, life is too short for that. Just

that whole just if you if you wouldn’t like, I’m the kind of person that, like when I’ve

outgrown a doctor or like, they’re just not a good fit for me anymore. I just, I go find a

new one. So that’s what I recommend for for all of you. Me too.

And just today, my my friend was telling me about an experience with her doctor where

she did not feel heard. And I thought, Well, is there not a woman doctor around?

Because I think women are better listeners just to make a generalization, that is

probably true. And so I feel like, you know what, There are women financial advisors in

a lot of women’s groups on Facebook, and people come on from time to time and be

like, Hey, does anybody have an advisor? And I’m always sharing the names of women

that I work with because that’s who I want to advocate for. And I feel like, you know,

men are going to find their people and let’s maybe advocate for women for a while.

Yeah, I don’t I feel like it might have been. It might’ve been Ted Lasso or something and

might have been a TV show. I saw this on, but it was like, again, I feel bad you. You just

giving me a job because we’re. You’re my friend. We’re like, That’s what I’ve been doing

for hundreds of years or thousands. Millions? Yeah, that’s the way it’s been. Yeah. I get

to work with women because I want to. Right. That’s. That’s the deal. So.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, it’s been super great to talk with you. I find that I understood

everything that you said. It wasn’t too complicated, and I. I didn’t feel talked down to, but

I didn’t feel like you were dumbing it down. And I and I want to share because I think I’m

hoping that other people had that experience when listening to you talk. And that is the

way that it can be when you’re talking with a financial advisor. Like you can ask

questions, you can have them break things down for you and they should explain things

to you in a way that you feel like, Oh, I totally understood that. What do you know? So I

appreciate that from you, Jen, and I appreciate the the information that you shared and

the stories that you shared and most of all the way that you are being around money,

which makes me feel like, oh, we can all be comfortable around money tip you.

Well, thank you so much for having me. You have you have invited me to a wonderful

space and invited me into beautiful work that you’re doing as well. So I’m super happy

to be here. Thank you. It was awesome. And with that, Jen and I are wishing you a

profitable and joyful consulting business. Agreed.